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Yet another 3000 controller thread
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 555

 PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:55 pm    Post subject: Yet another 3000 controller thread Reply with quote Back to top

I have a 1050 3000 with a bad capacitor. Hopefully that is the only thing.
I thought I had seen a thread with the names of a few motherboard repair shops. Anyone have a good place?

This 3000 had the controller replaced with a black cased one in 2009, so would a 1051 controller fit it? It took some creative modification to get it in.

I have been waiting for Markey000 to get his Kip controller repair service running, but it seems the shipping from down under may be a bit high!!! Although for enough of those monster shrimp, I may just go there and pick it up myself!


Scott
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1707
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Come on Scott, I know you can handle replacing caps, just be sure to use a low wattage soldering iron. As for having markey000 doing the work, unless I'm mistaken any caps replaced down under would be upside down when they got back here........ Shocked
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Last edited by mark in vegas on Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 555

 PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I can do the soldering, but I have never been a world class expert at it. It is probably what I'll do, though. What the hell, it's already broken.

And the crack about the caps - that was good!!!
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1707
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The trick to a clean cap replacement is desoldering wick or a solder sucker. I would recommend practicing on some other pcb before tackling the IPS.
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“You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word.” Professor Erwin Corey
 
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marky000
medical school senior


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Western Australia

 PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Lol Scott.

Yeah I have 2 or 3 Motherboards here with the correct chipset that definately work with the KIP3000 (replacement for white box MSI controller).

We then just spoof the network card MAC address of the old controller and connect the original CPU and hey presto, no KIP codes required as IPS number stays the same.

Because you upgraded to the black box controller I don't know what ramifications that may have. For instance the CPU socket may be diifferent on the black box (probably is), meaning your would not be able to install your original cpu, meaning you would infact need to get KIP codes re-issued as IPS number will change.

The motherboards that I have (MSI white box) are Intel Pentium 4 socket 478.

The question is, will the IF card in the black box controller be compatible with the motherboard from the white box controller? That I am not sure of, hopefully Jezebel chimes in because he probably knows or will make a very good educated guess. I don't have any spare white box IF cards at the moment but I know the KIP guy over here has a couple.

So you might be saying, hey why not just build the KIP 3000 white box controller and ship it over. 3 reasons why its not that simple:

- You would still need to put your original CPU in to retain your KIP codes. If you can get codes easy, that might not be an issue then.

- The MOBOs I have are full ATX size (larger than the original KIP boards). This makes fitting them into a small PC case difficult, if not impossible.

- As you say shipping from Australia could be a little expensive but shipping just the MOBO would be a more reasonable delivery cost.

For the customer over here, I ended up just putting all the controller components in freely (i.e. no case). I put some metal standoffs in the MOBO holes to prevent the MOBO shorting. At least you know the controller will always have adequate ventalation Smile The only issue I had with doing it this way was securing the PCI IF card. In the end, I wrapped some earth cable around the IF card connector that held it in place. People mount free standing PC components on walls etc so there are many options to use without having a metal case.

Let me know what your CPU socket is and what type of RAM is in that black box controller. (I am guessing it might be LGA 775 socket and DDR2 RAM).

Hopefully Jezebel can let us kow if he thinks the IF card would be compatible between the white and black box controller (my gut feeling is that it is not). I have plenty of old DDR RAM and P4 CPUs so those sorts of things will not be an issue (other than the fact you will need new codes)

It may be cheaper for you repair the cap, but the reason I did not go that route is you spend time and money on repairing the cap but there may be another issue (I have seen many MOBOs with bad caps still bootup). Also even quality repairers over here told me that when a cap fails, it often leaks on to surrounding components which makes the chances of successful repair lower. But your soldering skills sound way better than mine so might as well try the repair.

As for mark In Vegas' concerns, I promise to ship the MOBO in the upside down position.
 
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dlee
doctor


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1355
Location: E. Syracuse NY

 PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I recently had to replace a controller for a 1050. KIP says that there were 3 types of IF cards: 6PA-xxxxx, 6PB-xxxxx and 6PN-xxxxx. If you have a 6PA or a 6PB, you are SOL. But if you have a 6PN, you are able to purchase a newer/bigger No-IF controller and be able to us your current IF card, with new keycodes. KIP said it would reqiure a little modification to fit. After I got it, I was able to swap the IF card and plug in everything and get it working again. Now the modification that I saw was a lip on the roof (inside where the controller sits. There is a metal lip that hangs 1/4" too low and will not let the new controller sit flush. The new controller actually sticks out about 3"s, so unless you remove that lip, that's how the controller sits. You won't be able to put the back screen cover on. I just made a makeshift slant stacker coming from the exit so it never touches the controller and left it. Customer didn't care as long as they were able to print again. The part number is IPS3000-NOIF-J, but make sure you have a 6PN IF card though.
 
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 555

 PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

At this point it is not an issue, it turned out to be the power supply. One of the employees at this shop used to be a computer tech and seemed to be happy at the thought of repairing the controller. The owner liked the idea of getting it repaired without paying us service labor rates. He is going to replace the one bulging cap also. I go to install it Tuesday.

The board is an MSI MS-7265 Ver:1.0

When I replaced the white case with a black one it did come with a new IF card and new keys. The case is short enough to slide in completely. I had to bend a few brackets but the back cover fits. Kip told me that there was only one style of black case but from dlee's description the case I have sounds shorter than the newer ones. The only other thing I can think of for why it fits is this 3000 is the very first run, we pre- ordered it two months in advance of the 3000 being released. Maybe there were some changes to the later runs of the 1050 series. For future reference I will measure the height and look at the number on the IF card.

I still think picking the controller up in Australia, all expenses paid by my boss, sounds like the best plan.
I may even invite Mark, although spending that many hours in a plane with a madman sounds a little scary! Very Happy


Scott
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1707
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Scared you should be.....
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Mark
RVN 68-69
“You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word.” Professor Erwin Corey
 
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dlee
doctor


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1355
Location: E. Syracuse NY

 PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The controller that I replaced in the 1050 KIP3000 was also black with a blue face plate. It's actually thinner than the newer black boxes. That's why the replacement controller wouldn't sit flush inside the KIP. If you have a white box, you're probably SOL...with KIP support anyways...
 
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 555

 PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks dlee, the controller does have a blue face plate. I suspected there was a difference between the 1050 black boxes and the current 1051 black boxes.

They seem to be having problems finding the power supply so I directed them here, Steve has a link to the correct power supply.
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1707
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I know MSI also builds spec computers for OEM's. Maybe they still build a case that will fit the printer.
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Mark
RVN 68-69
“You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word.” Professor Erwin Corey
 
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marky000
medical school senior


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Western Australia

 PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

mark in vegas wrote:
Scared you should be.....


I bet Mark stands on his head the whole here so he is the right way up once he gets here. Very Happy
 
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1707
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I only stand on my head when playing the didgeridoo
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gjames
resident


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 173

 PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I have a box of various boards for the KIP controllers. I purchased a lot of Kiosk motherboards and it appears there are two versions of the board.

All of mine have CPUs and Memory on them.

The only difference on the motherboards is the Riser Card.

So it would make sense to replace the motherboard with the same model so you can reuse your Riser Card.

I have purchased some directly from MSI but I don't know if they offer it anymore.

And yes we have some machines with the White Box controllers that we retrofitted the newer MB's to fit.

Never had any issues.

I am curious about what dlee said about the IF version (6PA-xxxxx, 6PB-xxxxx and 6PN-xxxxx)..

Personally we never had an issue where we were not able to reuse our IF cards.

Despite what KIP told us about the KeyCodes; it's been our experience that the only two items that affect the KeyCodes are the IF Serial Number and the MAC address.

KIP claimed they used the Hard Drive Hardware Address also but I have never seen this to be true.


When the Controller starts up, a script reads the MAC address and the KIP IF address and creates a CODE based on these two numbers. Then the KeyCodes are made to only work with this CODE.

As long as you have the Same IF card and you clone the MAC address to the one from the original board when the KeyCodes were issued you are all set.

Personally I think the whole process is a joke. If KIP was only doing this to make sure you only ran the KIP equipment on "STABLE" computers that they have tested there are better ways to go about it than the whole KeyCode crap.

Most technicians I know are either good with the equipment or good with the software/controllers. Rarely both.

Knowing this if KIP wanted to have solid service they shouldn't make the controllers such a monumental pain in the Axx. Just my humble opinion.



If anyone needs boards, help or, etc feel free to PM me.


Also legally speaking the Software License is owned by the Customer. If KIP refuses to reissue KeyCodes for arbitrary reasons they are liable to be sued.

The only thing they can really do is ask you to verify that the controller is being installed in the machine with the serial number that the KeyCodes were issued to.

Once you prove this they shouldn't hold out on anyone.

Personally we have always been able to get KIP to reissue codes in instances where we have had to replace the IF card. So kudos to them so far.
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jezebel09
resident


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 209

 PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

gjames wrote:

I am curious about what dlee said about the IF version (6PA-xxxxx, 6PB-xxxxx and 6PN-xxxxx)..

Personally we never had an issue where we were not able to reuse our IF cards.

Despite what KIP told us about the KeyCodes; it's been our experience that the only two items that affect the KeyCodes are the IF Serial Number and the MAC address.

KIP claimed they used the Hard Drive Hardware Address also but I have never seen this to be true.


KIP has never claimed it was the Hard Drive Hardware Address. This would make zero sense. If a hard drive failed, then the IPS Number would change and customers/KIP would be changing key codes every other day.....not a smart thing to do.

The CPU ID on the other hand is used and it takes 2 items to be different for the key code to be changed. Since you have the same IF card and cloning the MAC address, no new key code. Although with newer IPS software, the CPU ID is no longer used.

gjames wrote:

When the Controller starts up, a script reads the MAC address and the KIP IF address and creates a CODE based on these two numbers. Then the KeyCodes are made to only work with this CODE.


There is no "script" that runs; this is controlled entirely by the IPS software and in particular Unattend.

gjames wrote:

Personally I think the whole process is a joke. If KIP was only doing this to make sure you only ran the KIP equipment on "STABLE" computers that they have tested there are better ways to go about it than the whole KeyCode crap.


Obviously you know that the key codes are used to control what options are used on the IPS. These options are scanning, PDF printing, Network printing (newer models), etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with "STABLE" computers. If you recall in the past, there used to be a dongle that was used for PDF printing, etc.; that is old technology and has gone the way of the dodo bird.


gjames wrote:

Knowing this if KIP wanted to have solid service they shouldn't make the controllers such a monumental pain in the Axx. Just my humble opinion.


Yes, KIP MADE the controllers a pain in the ass just to piss people off.

gjames wrote:

Also legally speaking the Software License is owned by the Customer. If KIP refuses to reissue KeyCodes for arbitrary reasons they are liable to be sued.

The only thing they can really do is ask you to verify that the controller is being installed in the machine with the serial number that the KeyCodes were issued to.

Once you prove this they shouldn't hold out on anyone.

Personally we have always been able to get KIP to reissue codes in instances where we have had to replace the IF card. So kudos to them so far.


Why even bring this last point up? I am confused. Also, while the Key Code and printer may be owned by the customer/dealer, the software and technology is owned by KIP and once the printer and software are deemed EOL, KIP is under no obligation to offer any type of support on the device and this includes key codes. But, as you point out, KIP has always provided key codes, even on an EOL device.
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