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Kip vs Oce

 
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copyman
medical school grad


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 97
Location: new jersey / phila

 PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Kip vs Oce Reply with quote Back to top

One of my customers currently has a Kip 3000 that is only a few years old and they have had a lot of problems lately with it. Mostly due to overuse. They have been running around 15k sq ft per month even though the machine is only rated for 5k sq ft per month.

They just asked me about upgrading to something that can handle more volume, around 20k square feet per month. They asked about the Oce TDS 700. They wanted to know If I could get that Oce or if there is a heavy duty kip model?
A few other things they asked me about was if there was a machine with a doc feeder that they could stack more then one original when copying and if not then faster scanning that will stack originals after scanned instead of rolling them up the way the 3000 does?

From what I read the Oce models are very expensive and I know I can save them money with a Kip. I have only sold the Kip 3000 and know nothing about Oce. I hate to lose this account and hope Kip has a "reliable" heavy duty machine I can offer them comparable to the Oce 700.

Any ideas greatly appreciated.

Happy Holidays to everyone.
 
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bigal
resident


Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 234
Location: TEXAS

 PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: KIP 5000 Reply with quote Back to top

Just sell them a KIP 5004 with a 1200 stacker. Kip is offering great deals on these right now!
 
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CHILLIN
doctor


Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 703

 PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Or look at the new KIP 7700 or 7900 will be out in a few weeks. 5000 series KIP's I think are on there way out so I would wait on that.
 
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copyman
medical school grad


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 97
Location: new jersey / phila

 PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

What would be the most square ft that could be run on the 5000 without causing excessive service calls.

what is the oem monthly volume rating for the 5000 & 7000 (or new 7700). Also the price range for these machines.

Thanks and Happy New Year
 
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eboucher
resident


Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Nashua, NH

 PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

There is no machine from any maker that offers a doc feeder for wide format. I would agree with everyone that a 5000 or one of the newer machines is the best way to go.
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CHILLIN
doctor


Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 703

 PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

According to the info I have it looks like the 7700 monthly volume is up to 50,000 sq/ft and the 7900 is 100,000 sq/ft.
MSRP for the
KIP 7900 w/600 Scanner Mono 4 Roll is $33,995
KIP 7900 w/600 Scanner Color 4 Roll is $34,995

I don't see exact prices for the 7700, but it looks like it's somewhere between 7-10 grand less.
 
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phan6622
doctor


Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 725
Location: Midwest

 PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

We have 3000's running 20k+ per month. Sure, they require a service call every 3 months... but you should probably be into a customer with a 5000 every three months. Just sayin..

The 5000 is a tried and true machine.
 
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copyman
medical school grad


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 97
Location: new jersey / phila

 PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Phan

My point was the 3000 is rated at up to only 5000 sq per month. My customer ran 358k on it in a little over 2 years. It worked good for most of that time except for the internal voltage errors. Then all hell broke loose and it started to have calls weekly! At one point it was down for a month with a strange problem I posted about here. I don't doubt it can handle the extra volume but it will eventually bite you in the ass.

When I sold them this machine they had no idea they would grow this fast. This time I want pleanty of room for them to grow.

I still cannot find what the 5000 max monthly volume is. I usually cut in half what the oem says. They usually over state the suggested volumes.

Looking at the service manual maint I see that the dev kit is replaced at 200k. Does this mean you have to completely rebuild the developer like the 3000? I have had the pleasure of rebuilding the 3000 dev unit and hope it is not like that. Especially having to do it at only 200k. Looks like the drum and fuser is rated higher but why only 200k for dev unit? don't make sense if this is suppose to be a higher volume machine.

Thanks again for the input
 
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caltech
resident


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Northern California

 PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Copyman, Technically the 3000 is rated for 10,000 square feet per month. We have several that run 20-30K per month. Yes it does require a lot more maintenance and parts but the customer does pay a lot more for service or click charges.
The 5000 is rated at 60,000 square feet per month but I think that is pushing it, I would rate it at 40,000.
I'd recommend you sell them the new 7900 which replaces the 7000 and is rated at 90,000 square feet just keep in mind that this is a 240 volt machine.
 
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KIPDOCTOR
Site Admin


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 1353
Location: Boston Area

 PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

In my humble opinion I would say that a good volume number for a 5000 would be around 30,000 tops per month.

Yes, developer rebuilds suck, but I provide this service to folks that would rather not do it. Not the best carreer choice, but it pays the bills.
We have gotten quite good at it. Over 2000 units refurbished to date. No wonder the toner never comes off my hands.
PS, I am a fan of the 6000, 5000 engine. Well built and performs well when maintained properly by someone that knows what they are doing.
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What we have gained in technology, we have lost in humanity.
 
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TXReproShop
resident


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 219

 PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Have a 5000 in house that we try to keep at about 20,000 to 25,000sq. per month and it runs good with normal maintanence program.

As far as the developer units on all my machines, they go to Doc only. Never have had any problems or issues.
 
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slyman
doctor


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Sherbrooke,Quebec

 PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

At my opinion, the machine is made for running more than making less then it should...I have more problem on anykind of machine that are not running than the one is "over" running. One of my 7000IPS is doing between 95-125K sqf per month and now have 1.5 million sqf and the inside is always clean, never replace the drum, did 1 dev rebuilt only...another 7000IPS do only 30Ksqf/month and I have lot more problem with it. For sure, it's not good to overload a machine in long time, but, with my experience, the machine are better when they are running.

So for your 3000', just do a little more prevention, let says, replace corona more often with the block, do some lub and you should be OK.

If you want change it, I would says like the other to go with the 5000 or the new 7700.

Good sell !
 
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